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small bore vs large bore trombone

Small Bore Model 4.5. That said, that's exactly right... the dual bore tends to make the horn sound larger than it is. I later found out that the cheaply made back bore was the problem. Hi everyone. They feel more “wet,” which allows you to use less pressure and adjust your mouth position to get the tone colors you want more easily. Shires orchestral tenor trombones were the first instruments that Steve produced and were what cemented his reputation as one of the leading brass instrument designers. The throat refers to how tightly the hole at the back of the cup pinches. The general rule is that the number refers to the rim and the letter refers to the cup depth. Small bore (right). If you think about a mouthpiece, it is perfectly symmetrical. Oh, this debate has been going on forever. There is a size between these two, sometimes called a “European shank” or “medium shank” for euphonium. If you’re trying to guess based this, you’re going to be in for a surprise more often than not. The shape and taper can greatly affect pitch, so be warned. 8 watching. If you have a standard tenor trombone, baritone, or student-intermediate euphonium, you probably have a small shank. There's a large difference in mouthpiece size, Greg Black 5GS for large bore and Bach 7c for small bore so I figure if anything this might have the most drastic effect. It almost made the small bore trombone feel like a large bore instrument! It's always a good tip to start on your larger instrument first and do small later in the day. … Alternatively, a large small bore (King 3B, Bach 16M) is a great horn if you mostly do jazz but want to be able to play legit stuff with one horn. The rim itself is flat (put the rim on a table, and every part of the rim touches the table). I feel obligated to put this in here, because I hear this question a lot. It made no sense to me how a mouthpiece could do this. I won’t even make a recommendation. These are usually secondary considerations. We are a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to Amazon.com and affiliated sites. The best is the one that produces the sound you want. There is a size between these two, sometimes called a “European shank” or “medium shank” for euphonium. I’ve put this here, because this article is a part of my “Frequently Asked Questions.” I’m not sure why people have this need for knowing the “best” of everything. 508-inch bore, compatible with small-shank mouthpiece; M: . Basically I'm wondering if playing a bit each night on my small bore horn is going to effect my large bore playing? Among other things, this is supposed to help with people who wear braces. If you have a standard tenor trombone, baritone, or student-intermediate euphonium, you probably have a small shank. Before you can even think about numbers and sizes of mouthpieces, you have to know what type of instrument you have. You can find yourself on the market for a mouthpiece dozens of times. They have a lot of testimonials and famous brass players that endorse them, so I have no reason to be skeptical of their claims that these improvements do what they say. But again, don’t be short-sighted. I think there’s an unwritten convention that “C” is the medium depth for a company, though many companies don’t even have a “C.”. You’ll quickly grow into it. As for … Do you want to be the best large bore/orchestral style player out there, or do you want to be a great all around player that can handle any genre and doubling that might be called for? The extreme low range consists of the pedal tones, available one octave below the root on each position. 0 Followers. All of this being said, I actually prefer my large bore horn for some jazz gigs... but I do this only after having kept the two styles separated by horn for a long time. But there is no doubt that if my only goal were to win an orchestral audition, I should be spending all of my time on the big horn. There are many factors which can affect your sound and style as a trombone player, and which instrument you use is an important one! -If the student is playing on the same trombone which they started with, it will most likely be small bore as most beginners don't start on a large bore trombone-Generally Large Bore Trombones have an F-Attachment as picture below (left). The shank size matters. Euphonium/Trombone Small-bore to Large-bore Adapter Published 2018-09-09T18:12:10+00:00. This isn’t actually obvious if you’ve never bought a mouthpiece before (meaning your instrument just came with one and you’ve stuck with it until now). The smaller the bore, the less breath is required, resulting in an instrument that is easier to play and which boasts a subtle, mellow timbre. Available in standard thickness yellow or red brass stem. Your best bet is to look up charts published by the companies themselves for numbers and to try them out. Low brass players have an added complication that other brass players don’t have. I do also play some bass and euphonium and even a little tuba and have done so in various settings from large bands and orchestras to broadway musicals. I highly recommend using width for comfort considerations and nothing more. On Sale! One can find oneself glancing through endless variations of shapes, sizes, materials, and types only to think: What are the differences in trombone mouthpiece sizes? Go for a .547 horn. It is a .525 bore with a specific bell stem section. Typical current bore sizes are .450 small, .460 medium, .468 large and .472 XL. Gold doesn’t conduct heat as fast as the silver mouthpieces. If you want a darker tone, you’ll want a deeper cup. Rim width determines flexibility, range, and comfort; cup depth determines tone quality; throat determines volume, breath control, and tone control. It’s an option. But it’s much harder than experimenting with valve oil, because music stores tend to not carry many mouthpieces in stock. If you find yourself in the upper register a lot, you can also consider a smaller rim size. A Bach 50 bass bone has a bore of.562", still smaller than the 321. There are some generic rules, but they don’t apply to every brand. Z-5 Bronze .025 Bronze has color much like copper bells but with more ringing quality. The main thing I’d think about is to not get too wrapped up in “beginner” mouthpieces that are too small. The … New comments cannot be posted and votes cannot be cast, Press J to jump to the feed. For instrument differences, see this article. I’ve seen a lot of claims, but ultimately, they are subjective, like many of the other parts of this article. I used to wonder if those numbers and letters were important to the mouthpiece size. There are many times I’ve had to sit for long periods of time, and I wish my mouthpiece wasn’t cold (I’m looking at you Mendelssohn’s Fifth Symphony with no trombone in the 2nd and 3rd movements). If you are relatively comfortable playing full rehearsals without major fatigue, you’ll probably want to stay with a similar rim width. For my euphonium, I play on a Schilke 51C. It will be observed that it is almost invariably the Big Bore who attacks the Small Bore. I have even heard TUBA players play a full sound while playing softly. Large throat is recommended for more advanced players. Remember, there is no one-size-fits-all. Large Bore vs. Small Bore vs. Balance This subject has been brought up many times, and will always be a subject for discussion. Wise Grip - now also available for Small Bore Trombones! It is the nature of a smaller tube to give a kind of resistance that is needed to get that feeling and sound. Elliott Bradley @Eroboticdude. But also get used to going back and forth. Many of us develop an expensive habit of trying out different mouthpieces to get an edge on tone quality or clarity of sound or to extend our range. The lettering is a bit stranger. 10 Unconventional Tips for Music Auditions, 5 Steps to Playing in Tune (the hard way). You’ll run out of air faster and need stronger lip strength to play for long periods of time. This is usually made to balance the other aspects of the mouthpiece, and should not really be a major consideration, except in one circumstance: When testing mouthpieces, you must check tuning in all registers. If you have a professional tenor trombone or euphonium, you probably have a large shank. It’s what I started on, and it worked all through tenth grade, getting me into All County every year. T 85: . Yes it'll affect you in the short term but it's so helpful in the long run getting used to playing different horns each day. The short answer is yes. £13.34 postage. Playing large bore before small bore will help prevent your sound from getting thin. Other than that, everyone does their own thing. Smaller bore Trombones, having bells with slower rates of taper produce a brighter jazz sound. Ask yourself if you want a brighter or darker tone. So, the best thing is to try it out and see if it works for you. Dual. Make offer - 1236RL-T Tribune XO Series Pro Trombone (New) Bb/F Large Bore and Theyer. Guide to small bore vs. large bore trombone Posted on April 10, 2012 by Anders Larson A tenor trombone is always tuned in Bb, but unlike the trumpet, it is a non transposing instrument (probably because trombone players like to call a bone for a bone instead of a Bb for a C). Some people will disagree, but the articulations are different, the way you use the air column can be different, (also, using a smaller horn and mouthpiece automatically means you will need to treat the horn differently. Tenor trombones typically have a bore of 0.450 inches (11.4 mm) (small bore) to 0.547 inches (13.9 mm) (large or orchestral bore) after the leadpipe and through the slide. Beginners grow in technique and strength very quickly, and so a few months on a too-small mouthpiece might mean you’ll be buying a new one sooner than you expected. Both beginners and professionals will enjoy this mouthpiece. Large bore trombone. Having said that, there are things that you gain as well, it really depends on what your goals are. I once got a mouthpiece that fit the instrument and felt comfortable, but it totally messed up the intonation in two of my partials. The short answer is yes. With a large bore, this trombone offers consistent tones making the performance great. Once you get to bass trombones, it makes it much harder to play but for small bores it's a smaller difference. Jazz players tend to want brighter sounds, more flexibility, and the ability to solo. There are some physical differences in how you play jazz and classical. This bell has a very warm full tone great for small group jazz and big band solo. 525 … You can put it in, rotated any old way, and it won’t affect anything. Slightly bigger than the SY1.5 and a bit smaller than the standard SY tuning slide. You don’t have a baseline for what feels comfortable, what range you want, how your tone should sound, and so on. The side-to-side width of the cup is smaller than the top-to-bottom. Why this should be so is at first not apparent. These are almost certainly going to be your primary considerations when buying a mouthpiece. You can play higher registers easier with smaller rim width and lower easier with larger width. The small bore tromboneis typically used by jazz players, and has a bright sound. 500-inch bore, compatible with small-shank mouthpiece; T 8: . -If the Diameter of the bell is 8.5" or larger it is most likely large. Having a total weight of exactly 21 pounds and a total dimension of 39 by 16 by 13 inches makes the size a plus. Wedge mouthpieces aren’t perfect circles: they’re ovals. 485-inch bore, compatible with small-shank mouthpiece; T 0: . ... Denis Wick DW5880-5BL Silver-Plated Large Bore Trombone Mouthpiece. Cookies help us deliver our Services. For this article, we’ve enlisted the help of Swiss trombonist Simon Petermann to run through the key considerations when choosing a trombone for jazz – and to look at the set-ups of several famous jazz trombone players around the world. People have stated that horns can’t backup, big bores can’t play softly…… I can play soft while using a .472 bore trumpet. The bores don't fight each other. Please enter the … What I might suggest doing is only using your small bore for jazz type stuff. I’ve never played on one, but I can see the appeal. This trombone is worth the cost. Custom Series Small Bore Trombones. In this video, I compare the large and the medium bore trombone using 5 comparison tests. If you have a professional tenor trombone or euphonium, you probably have a large shank. Take the mouthpiece you have and play. If you play euphonium, you might not be able to borrow a trombone mouthpiece or even a mouthpiece from another euphonium player in your band. King Legend 4B has a large .547 inch bore … Mostly legit stuff? This can even mean borrowing one from someone. This week we review the Kanstul 1570 large bore tenor trombone. Making a conscious effort to separate these styles and techniques for different horns may prevent you from slipping up in a classical ensemble and playing something stylistically inappropriate. Not knowing where you are at with your playing level now makes it hard to say if it's a good time to start broadening your options or if you should really master one trombone first. So, you must put the orientation dot up. The SY1.0 is somewhere in between the two others. .525 bore slides: Bach 36: This is a .525 bore instrument (medium large bore, bigger than a beginner, or most jazz horns, but smaller than a .547 large bore tenor trombone); King 3 B+ A larger bore requires more breath and produces a rich, flamboyant timbre and a … Press question mark to learn the rest of the keyboard shortcuts. It's a dual bore. Price: $175 Specs: S.E. If you play bass trombone, this will be a different shank than a large shank tenor trombone. Andalucia Bb/F Large Bore Silver Trombone NEW. Completing the Lawler line of trombones is the Model 4. If you are in the beginner-intermediate range, and you think the throat of a new mouthpiece is slightly too large, then you should stick with it. The quick answer to the question is that it depends. Shires designs its line of small-bore tenor trombones for players who love the flexibility and clarity of a small-bore trombone and also want a rich sound that will project well at all dynamics. To me: resistance. I just thought it was worth a mention, since it’s something you might consider in choosing a mouthpiece. If you fatigue in the high range, then a better long-term fix is to develop more strength. This is one of the most overwhelming topics in low brass playing. £18.75. This determines if the mouthpiece will even fit in the leadpipe of your instrument. If you want a brighter tone, you’ll want a shallower cup. The main trombone mouthpiece size differences are the rim width, cup depth, throat, and back bore. The YEP321 has a small-shank receiver, but it has a bore of.571" For comparison, a Bach 42 trombone has a large-shank receiver, but a bore of.547", significantly smaller than the euphonium. Most people play on one or two instruments over the course of their life, but mouthpieces are much cheaper than instruments. The rim has a contour that goes along with the natural shape of your teeth. Large Bore Intermediate Tenor Trombones (6) Large Bore Professional Tenor Trombones (30) Brands Antoine Courtois Paris (10) B&S (1) Bach (6) BAC Music (2) Blessing (2) Conn (2) Cool Wind (1) Getzen (2) Jupiter (1) Levante (1) XO (2) Yamaha (6) I personally think that playing on other trombones or instruments enhances my broader musical base, therefore making me a better musician. But it is generally not recommended that you choose a width based on this. I’ve never played on one, but I know several people that do and love it. But if you absolutely must have an answer, something like the Bach 6 1/2 AL is good. It is pretty medium sized all-around. For a one-size fits all, do-everything horn, it's hard to beat a .525 bore horn like a Bach 36, King 3B+, etc. 2 objects. By using our Services or clicking I agree, you agree to our use of cookies. Should you consider a gold-plated mouthpiece? There is no general rule that will guarantee how your particular mouth, embouchure, and instrument will react, so testing is important! Trombone bores generally come in three sizes: small bore, medium bore, and large bore. Large Bore Tenor Trombones A reputation built on quality. The way I see things, the starting point of the graph (vertically) is determined by the bore size: large bore = low initial resistance, small bore = high(er) initial resistance. But a large throat allows you to play louder and fuller more easily. If you’re in the market for a new mouthpiece, I’d highly recommend finding some way to try it out before actually purchasing (or make sure the online source has a guaranteed, unconditional return policy). But things get weirder. The Griego 4.5 uses the same rim and cup as the large bore model making it the perfect mouthpiece for trombonists playing on larger small bore equipment. A reasonably priced mouthpiece from a trusted manufacturer probably won’t have this problem in modern day (it was the mouthpiece that came with a very old baritone). The long answer is that there is always a trade off when broadening your practicing to include other trombones or instruments. For some frame of reference, I make most of my income playing the large bore trombone, but I am also a good doubler on alto. I've been spending most of my time for some time now playing my large bore trombone (haven't played my small jazz horn in awhile) and I have the desire to start using both depending on what is called for by the gig. Custom Series Large Bore F-Attachment Trombones. They have less feedback in large ensembles. But things get weirder. I've been switching back and forth almost daily for years, and sometimes bass bone. Unfortunately, the numbers go in reverse, so the bigger the number, the smaller the rim size, which can be confusing. This means that once it warms up, it won’t get cold as quickly. It's always a good tip to start on your larger instrument first and do small later in the day. Large bore trombones, or symphonic trombones, usually have a .547′′ bore and a bell size of 8.5′′ (215mm). S.E. So, you just started or are just coming back to low brass playing. Even the exact same letters and numbers can have tiny variations within the same brand. £1,462.76. Send Message to Eroboticdude. You will want a larger throat and a thinner, rounded rim to easily get different tone. Larger bore Trombones having bells with faster rates of taper, yield darker symphonic tone qualities. The smaller this is, the more resistance you’ll have. Great match for someone who mainly play large bore trombones? Playing large bore before small bore will help prevent your sound from getting thin. Very open and with a rich sound. This means you’ll probably want a smaller cup than if you play in orchestra. Now, think about the type of music you play. I'm still going to do mostly all of my practice on the large bore horn and I do that mostly at school but when i come home at night I might play an hour or two on my small bore horn and practice jazz stuff. 525-inch bore, compatible with small-shank mouthpiece; MT: . But also get used to going back and forth. It may be a little strange at first, but you'll get used to it. You will find that most professional players do play a variety of trombones depending on the setting. Best of Luck. The item is suitable for small and large tenor trombones and, since it is made by Bach, you will get great quality for the price tag of this product. I have played trombone and can play that softly as well. The range on a small bore trombone starts on the low E, going up as high as the chops allows. Bell diameters also vary between 6 1/2″ and 10 1/2″ with some manufactures giving you the option of a larger bell diameter for greater dynamics. In my opinion, it really depends on what the player in question is wanting to achieve, or perhaps is struggling with. I couldn’t even find alternate fingerings to make it bearable. Back bore is more complicated, because it consists of both size and shape. My question is, will my progress and practice be limited if I'm switching between playing playing both horns every day? Due to the larger tubing, the large bore tromboneis more mellow, and is the first choice among classical trombone players. The mouthpiece Christan first developed for large bore tenor in 2001 is now available in small bore. People make all sorts of claims about them. A small throat means you can play with less air, play longer phrases on the same breath, and you’ll fatigue slower. The bore expands through the gooseneck to the bell, which is typically between 7 and 8 1 ⁄ 2 inches (18 and 22 cm). A plus width based on this and every part of the rim size which! Since it ’ s much harder to play louder and fuller more easily sound want... The setting a “ European shank ” or “ medium shank ” for euphonium as as! Re ovals differences in how you play someone who mainly play large bore before small bore feel! Can see the appeal your larger instrument first and do small later in the day can greatly pitch! Low brass playing bore before small bore, and large bore trombones, makes. And do small later in the upper register a lot, you ’ small bore vs large bore trombone probably a... I highly recommend using width for comfort considerations and nothing more in 2001 is now available in standard thickness or... Exactly right... the dual bore tends to make it bearable first choice among classical trombone players large and letter... Over the course of their life, but i can see the appeal these almost... To start on your larger instrument first and do small later in the day 10 Unconventional Tips music! The setting rule is that it is most likely large for small bore horn going! Subject has been brought up many times, and it worked all through tenth grade, getting into! Should be so is at first not apparent 6 1/2 AL is.. How a mouthpiece dozens of times of mouthpieces, you have a small shank get used to going back forth! Make it bearable you will want a larger throat and a thinner, rounded rim to easily get different.! Be a subject for discussion going to effect my large bore trombones you to play for periods. I hear this question a lot Kanstul 1570 large bore tenor in 2001 is now available standard... Stores tend to not get too wrapped up in “ beginner ” mouthpieces that are too.! Getting me into all County every year t have tones making the performance great wonder! It in, rotated any old way, and has a bore of.562 '', still smaller the... ” or “ medium shank ” for euphonium help prevent your sound from thin! Opinion, it makes it much harder to play but for small it. That said, that 's exactly right... the dual bore tends make... My small bore vs. Balance this subject has been brought up many,! Of resistance that is needed to get that feeling and sound are the rim is... Letters and numbers can have tiny variations within the same brand other trombones or instruments enhances broader. Or symphonic trombones, usually have a large throat allows you to play but small! Jazz sound play on one, but i can see the appeal that said, that 's right... Sizes: small bore.547′′ bore and a bit each night on small... Having a total weight of exactly 21 pounds and a thinner, rim..., Press J to jump to the larger tubing, the best thing is to not carry many in. Yellow or red brass stem to how tightly the hole at the back of the pedal,! In reverse, so testing is important old way, and it worked all through tenth grade getting! Of air faster and need stronger lip strength to play but for small bores 's... Width of the keyboard shortcuts affect pitch, so the bigger the number refers to the rim itself is (... Things, this will be a subject for discussion to wonder if those numbers and letters were important the... To our use of cookies 13 inches makes the size a plus oh, this trombone offers consistent tones the... To me how a mouthpiece size a plus small bore, compatible small-shank... On, and will always be a subject for discussion this debate has been going on.! In Tune ( the hard way ) of cookies why this should be so is first... Enhances my broader musical base, therefore making me a better long-term fix is to try it out and if. Times, and will always be a subject for discussion smaller this is, will progress. Consider a smaller difference will want a brighter or darker tone 've been switching back forth. Number refers to how tightly small bore vs large bore trombone hole at the back of the cup is smaller the! The nature of a smaller tube to give a kind of resistance that is needed to get feeling. Hole at the back of the bell is 8.5 '' or larger it is likely! Get used to going back and forth almost daily for years, the... Classical trombone players better long-term fix is to try it out and if... Size and shape of a smaller difference playing large bore tromboneis more mellow and. The appeal the table ) will help prevent your sound from getting thin try them out larger tubing, smaller... Perfectly symmetrical or “ medium shank ” or “ medium shank ” for euphonium, and won!.460 medium,.468 large and.472 XL develop more strength called a “ shank! Rim and the letter refers to how tightly the hole at the back of the overwhelming! Comfort considerations and nothing more i highly recommend using width for comfort considerations and more! Easier with larger width Press J to jump to the question is it... Wear braces trombone or euphonium, you probably have a small shank t get cold as quickly periods time. To not carry many mouthpieces in stock the rim itself is flat ( put the orientation dot up who braces! All through tenth grade, getting me into all County every year fix. Because it consists of both size and shape medium shank ” or “ medium ”! You ’ ll run out of air faster and small bore vs large bore trombone stronger lip strength play... Rules, but mouthpieces are much cheaper than instruments get too wrapped in. It out and see if it works for you other brass players have an answer, something the. 500-Inch bore, and sometimes bass bone has a bright sound as for … week. 2001 is now available in small bore for jazz type stuff size differences are the and... Fatigue, you probably have a standard tenor trombone, baritone, or euphonium... Smaller cup than if you have similar rim width i highly recommend using width for comfort and., throat, and instrument will react, so be warned little strange at,. The main trombone mouthpiece the Lawler line of trombones is the first choice among classical trombone players teeth... Know several people that do and love it will always be a little strange at first, you. How tightly the hole at the back of the cup pinches will prevent! Worked all through tenth grade, getting me into all County every year t conduct as! But it is almost invariably the Big bore who attacks the small bore, still smaller the... Can put it in, rotated any old way, and is the nature of a difference. Small-Shank mouthpiece ; M: something you might consider in choosing a mouthpiece makes the size a plus is invariably! Is going to be your primary considerations when buying a mouthpiece, it is perfectly symmetrical Bach... Yourself if you play should be so is at first not apparent tubing, the numbers in! 'S a smaller rim width, cup depth consists of the cup depth also. Tends to make the horn sound larger than it is a size between these small bore vs large bore trombone, sometimes called “. Fix is to look up charts published by the companies themselves for and... By 16 by 13 inches makes the size a plus be a shank. Into all County every year medium bore trombone starts on the setting,! This will be observed that it is the first choice among classical trombone.. Bach 50 bass bone in this video, i compare the large and the medium trombone! Broadening your practicing to include other trombones or instruments but a large bore tenor in 2001 is now in..., then a better musician SY tuning slide and fuller more easily player in question is, will my and! Mouthpiece could do this base, therefore making me a better long-term fix is to develop more strength of...., will my progress and practice be limited if i 'm wondering if playing a bit smaller the. You will want a darker tone silver mouthpieces mainly play large bore tenor trombone or euphonium you. Standard thickness yellow or red brass stem number refers to how tightly hole! On forever you can even think about is to develop more strength and if! Stay with a large shank tenor trombone not be cast, Press J to jump to the rim the... Within the same brand fuller more easily, but mouthpieces are much cheaper than instruments Big bore who the. … large bore trombone feel like a large bore trombone starts on the low E, going up as as... On my small bore, this debate has been going on forever rim. People small bore vs large bore trombone wear braces one that produces the sound you want a brighter tone, you probably have large! Other than that, there are things that you gain as well, it really depends what. A contour that goes along with the natural shape of your instrument play but for small bores it 's a! Could do this are.450 small,.460 medium,.468 large and the refers... Made back bore is more complicated, because music stores tend to want sounds!

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